Scapegoat Survival: Owning the Role That Shaped You

Jon Murphy, PMHNP: Welcome back.

This is another episode of Toxic,
brought to you by the Compass

Point Institute podcast Network.

This is Jon Murphy,
psychiatric nurse practitioner.

I've talked about toxic people
vaguely over at the YouTube

channel @CompassPointInstitute

I've been getting out basic content
and this podcast network I want to

shift focus on, make its own thing
and really get into deep dives that

we can't really do anywhere else.

If this is your preferred method of
learning, well let's learn, shall we?

In every family system that
has a narcissistic parent or an

emotionally immature parent or a
toxic parent, there tends to be roles.

The family system is split off.

The narcissistic parent will
reinforce certain behaviors, and

if you're the family scapegoat.

Then your story is unique and it's a
great place for me to talk on because

indeed I am the family scapegoat
and I own that role and I've come

to understand what that means and
appreciate what that brought me.

You know what?

How did that shape me?

Certainly glad I didn't stick around.

So the scapegoat has a lot of.

Benefits associated with it.

You can call it out and name it that
truth telling, you know, it's something

we're gonna be able to do everywhere.

We can spot it out in the world.

We're gonna be more discerning
in the way we look at the world.

but the thing of it is if
we don't understand what's

actually wrong with our parent,

we don't see that it's not just a
matter of they did the best they can.

It's not a matter of, oh, you
know, they had a tough life.

I know they really love me.

Whatever.

We don't know anything.

If you're looking at behavior that's
outta control, we know nothing.

We only know one thing.

The thing that we know now
is how we feel right now.

So ask yourself, how
do you feel right now?

In the moment?

But I'll tell you, the family
scapegoat it's a tricky place to be.

Indeed.

Everyone's scapegoat story is a little
bit different and everybody has a

different sort of family makeup.

the sort of logistics interpersonally
how many siblings do you

have, what are the dynamics?

Is money used as control?

Is religion used as control?

Are there alcohol or, addiction issues?

So these are things that are gonna
affect the dynamic and you can sort

of overlay these concepts and apply
them to you and understand them.

In my situation, I can see now
why, why are we scapegoated?

So the scapegoat role is
a little bit different.

Scapegoating is used to get people
to sort of maintain the status

quo so anyone can be scapegoated.

But to become this family scapegoat is
very much a role and for narcissistic

parents and especially narcissistic
mothers, I do believe the connection to

the child is so strong that they represent
something to them at a certain point in

time, whether it's true or not a threat.

Looking back now, I can see I have
two older brothers, quite a gap, a

brother 12 years older than me and
a brother, six years older than me.

So I look on it with a new set of eyes.

We just know what we were born into.

For me, it was a lot of chaos.

There's a lot of goings on and I can
see that my mother probably had her

narcissistic supply sort of locked in.

So therefore, this
became a threat to that.

You know, and I, whether it was true or
not, I was identified and marked because

things were probably all set up.

How do I know things were probably set up?

Well, I was told on many occasions
I was an accident, a happy accident.

He, he ha ha ha.

Right.

Well, that's a red flag.

Let's highlight that one.

And when you're going through
life, what are you dealing with?

And then where does it bring you?

And all I can say is the biggest
part of my dysfunctional family

upbringing was my parents get
divorced, my mother and my father.

They split up.

My mother's a toxic narcissistic
individual of the most malignant

variety, and my father is sort of
that I would put him in the category

of passive dependent, neurotic.

And there's a multi-generational
thing, and no one's really to

blame at the end of the day when
we're taking care of ourselves.

But why do we call them toxic?

Why do we say it's toxic?

Well, the same reason
you call Chernobyl Toxic.

It makes a lot of sense because
you can say, all right, I'm not

gonna look for a new house there.

It's hazardous to our health,
hazardous to our life.

Quality of life, literally.

So here's the thing.

What we're gonna do as scapegoats,
don't dismiss yourself.

You might have at a very early age,
said, oh my gosh, this is crazy.

And that's what I did.

The screaming, the
yelling, and the insanity.

I just sort of said, whatever.

She's crazy.

And then of course you have the siblings.

What are they telling you?

So anyone that is connected
to a narcissist or a toxic

individual is a threat.

Because you need to be one degree of
separation away from the narcissist.

You need to be very careful.

So, she's fine.

She's doing better.

She's so much better.

Whatever it is.

Whatever that looks like.

Well, we have to be
very careful with that.

So.

Yeah, that can keep things
moving a lot quicker.

I know for me, I wouldn't have got
stuck in the mustard for as long as I

did if I had just maybe, you know, you
get pressured into it, and then let's

just say the insanity, the over insanity
goes away and what's replaced by it.

Well, maybe you find a
way out of it for me.

Moved away.

You know, there was a lot
of things to keep her busy.

So when she was busy, I was fine.

You know, I didn't really think
about her about much, and it was

kind of nice whenever I did, I was
like, oh, it felt like an obligation.

All right, here we go.

Gotta see her.

And being in mental health, which
is a another interesting thing, like

I, I can see now I probably got into
this field because I need, for me, I

understand when I got into a psych unit.

It was an insane environment.

Restraints private, hospital cheap.

Like I'm talking, they'll hire anyone
off the street just to do this work.

The first PA day of work, I was put
with a what's called a one-to-one where

you have to be with a patient all day
and there was a psychotic individual.

But you know what I liked?

They were rules and there
was a clear you can do this.

When faced with Dysfunctional
behavior or outta control, unsafe

mentally unhinged behavior.

there was a protocol we could do,
and the institutional aspects of

the role made things pretty simple.

It was a really good way to interface
with, outta control behavior and

to find a way to deal with it.

Nonetheless, I was still extremely
triggered throughout my entire career.

And that's another piece too.

If we moving through it,
we have to also understand.

we have to keep listening to ourselves
and a lot of people that are in toxic

families, they can work in emergency
room settings, they can work in high

stress environments and that can be
great, but it's okay to reevaluate

that down the line as we grow, you
know, we might outgrow the place

that we're in, what brought us there.

So all along this time, I'm working
at Boston Children's Hospital in my

twenties, early thirties, and things got
pretty quiet No matter what I learned

and how many patients I saw or how many
interesting concepts I learned through

work or grad school, eventually, I
never could quite figure out my mother.

She was like, huh, I guess
she's borderline, right?

And I feel like for a long time that
was sort of the label slapped on anyone

that was challenging to deal with,
which is another story altogether.

However, I started to develop awareness
of narcissism, which was never taught

in my graduate education, and I never
really understood it culturally or

academically prior to 2022, 2023.

So here's the thing.

My mother would always be different.

No matter where we were.

It was, oh, hi.

I'm just the, oh, I'm the feeble old lady.

Or maybe it's a, I'm a,
I'm a crazy, how you doing?

I'm just gonna give it to you straight.

'cause I'm a real tough lady.

I grew up on a farm and I'm a tough lady.

Or it'd be, oh, I'm just like, tired.

Or it could be, hi, everything's
fun, everything's fine.

So these like, sort of shifts in
personality and it was easy to write

off as like, oh, she's just crazy,
or, oh, she's been through so much.

But I come to find out Every last second
was absolutely calculated from a place

of extreme psychological pathology.

all the mental framework, all the
motivations are dictated by this fact

getting the narcissistic supply.

So then all of a sudden it's
like, it all makes sense.

The personality changes in
relation to the group dynamics.

What's gonna be the best face to wear

in order to get the supply?

And if the supply's not gained,
then the mask comes off.

Then the crazy, who do you think you are?

the yelling and the screaming, all that
stuff comes out and that's really at

the end of the day, who my mother is.

And when I think back to it,
going through my healing process,

after going to contact and really
understanding the gravity of things.

Here's what we have to understand.

If you're dismissing it, like, oh,
this is just how it's gonna be.

The crazy can go away and it
can be easier to deal with

because it's not so loud, but.

Do not dismiss the subtle attempts at
gaining supply, the subtle attempts at

causing triangulation, the subtle attempts
to emotionally manipulate and triangulate.

I had worked so hard to be normal.

I had worked so hard to develop
communication skills and healthy

relationship attachment patterns and
so many issues I had to work through.

And at the end of it, I just thought, Hey,
look, I've climbed the highest mountain.

Come on in.

Let's all just hang out and have a
good time, and it will be like the

movies, we'll be able to be a one big
happy family, but that's assuming that

everyone just wants what you want.

That is directly opposed
to what my mother wants.

healthy, happy, normal?

I'm raising my children and presenting
a different narrative than the one

that's been presented all our lives.

This is the way things are.

The toxic parent has one
way of looking at things.

This is their worldview.

You're down with it or you're not.

And in this case, taking the
traditional path, if you will,

finding my way to develop structured
discipline, go that academic route.

It's everything I learned, it's
the opposite of what I was told.

And she doesn't like that,
in fact she'd destroy it.

So when I realized in that moment,
oh my goodness, all those years

of, she's doing so much better.

It was all a lie.

It's all a game.

you are thinking you're being normal
and just what can we talk about?

So I unintentionally applied
a tactic called Gray Rock.

Just started talking about
the boringest things.

Just, Hey, do you want to talk about.

You wanna talk?

Oh, that's nice.

Oh, you went over here.

Oh, that's wonderful.

They're playing a game.

the game is, I'm gonna out normal you.

Oh yeah.

You think you can go ahead and be healthy?

Just watch this.

Think you can be normal.

Just watch this.

I'm calm.

You know, how are you today?

Everything's calm.

Alright, another red flag for you.

If you get a phone call and you
answer it, Hey, how you doing?

I'm good.

How are you?

I'm good.

Is everything all right?

Is everything all right?

It's just a trigger, so of
course everything's all right?

Yes, everything's fine.

Thankfully, after all these
years, everything's fine.

Oh, okay.

They need things not to be fine,
so they want things to be bad.

And if you just dismiss the fact that
this is going on, well, there's something

that is deeper than what you think.

It's what you were born into.

The people that brought
you into this world.

If they're toxic individuals in
your scapegoated, you were not

validated and you were not cared for.

And, we have this wound, we carry
these wounds as adults that we un have.

If we can take a look at them,
we can fill them in ourselves.

But if we don't, we're gonna
keep bumping into problems.

And that unmet need for validation,
it's gonna lead us to overexplain.

We're gonna be nervous
during conversations, we're

gonna need outside approval.

We're gonna be vulnerable
without even realizing it.

You know, it's like the sort of things
where you, oh, did I talk too much?

Are people gonna like me?

The second guessing yourself,
it all stems from a.

Need for validation that we didn't get.

So if we dismiss that need of
validation, if we dismiss what our

needs are, then we're in trouble.

You do not need to keep anybody
in your life that refuses

to see you for who you are.

And now I can look back
and have a sense of humor.

It's like, wow.

At least you know, at least
some of these attempts.

It almost seems like she was playing
with me, which I guess they do that

they probably amuse themselves.

So my wife, back in 2017 when
I graduated Boston College.

She sat next to my mother and she just
talked the entire time, the entire

graduation ceremony, my master's degree.

All she did was talk about her
restaurant that she was going to open.

It was one of her many flights of
fancy, you know, big pie in the sky

ideas that never come to fruition.

This was another one, MAs Kitchen.

Oh, I'm gonna do MAs Kitchen.

And I remember at the end of the
long day, I greeted her in my cap

and gown and like this sort of Harry
Potter stuff they have you put on

when you get your master's degree.

She looks up at me and she
goes, question mark, M's.

Kitchen.

And I was like, all right, we gotta go.

And it was, I didn't feel anything.

But at the end of the day, that matters.

I used to feel like I needed
to hide my excitement for life.

I used to hide my curiosity for life.

I had to feel bad about being myself,
and you should never have to do that.

You should never have to hide
who you are because someone

else needs you to be something.

you should never have to hide
your authentic self because

it's a threat to someone else.

And if you feel a certain way,
whether it's sad, happy, scared,

angry, then you deserve to feel
it because it's a normal emotion.

So if you were angry, and I
know I was, especially as a

teenager, you had a right to be.

And I can go back and realize when I
first heard all emotions are normal.

I was 38 psychiatric nurse
practitioner, and this was a new idea.

All emotions are normal.

What are you so angry for?

You've always been angry.

So it's another pattern of the narcissist.

You're blamed for the
conditions they've created.

They've set you up for failure and then
pointed the finger at you, so it's a

tough pill to swallow, but ask
yourself, what am I holding?

And if you're gonna initiate
contact with a parent that you

think is narcissistic, stop and ask
yourself, why am I reaching out?

if you're reaching out to anyone, even
a friend, ask yourself, does this come

from a place of needing validation?

And if it does, just hold, wait.

You can call later, but just
sit there and talk to your

inner child and say, I got you.

Because you don't need to be
around toxic people anymore.

Once again, this is Jon Murphy,
psychiatric nurse practitioner.

For more of my insights, you could
check me out a www.myfocuspath.blog.

We'll talk to you later.